tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3280398557052766604.post4510733492692684659..comments2023-04-11T05:20:42.357-07:00Comments on Bobbing Gecko: Testimony and the Trial of FaithGeckoManhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04846438788253129899noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3280398557052766604.post-91233276927316901782007-08-24T13:53:00.000-07:002007-08-24T13:53:00.000-07:00My parents and I had a very interesting talk about...My parents and I had a very interesting talk about this when I was visiting them in Utah lately. I told them that I felt that a devout Mormon had more in common with a devout Buddhist or a devout Muslim or a devout Catholic, than with a Mormon who does not believe or practice his or her faith; and they agreed. To the extent we engage, to the extent we enter into a real relationship with God, we are on the path. <BR/><BR/>Rational, righteous people may evaluate the same data and come to different conclusions. Fortunately, Mormons have a system of belief that does not exclude anybody from the Celestial Kingdom on the grounds that, righteous and devout though they were, they failed to pick the "right" religion. We see the path of understanding truth as a process that extends far beyond this life. And we also understand that it is by our conscience and by what we know in this life that we will be judged; not by what we did not know. <BR/><BR/>Given that we don't know what process is going on in someone else's mind or conscience, it would be arrogant indeed to assert that a devout Catholic who received the missionary discussions and decided after all that they did not believe in Mormonism was going to be damned. (I taught a number of such people in France on my mission, and I was struck by how loving, Christ-centered, compassionate, and Spirit-filled they were. And I was surprised when such people did not just automatically convert.)<BR/><BR/>As I said on my own blog in response to your post on my "Clarification" post, I can only know what is going on in the context of my own relationship with God, not anyone else's. I know what the Spirit has revealed to <I>me</I> and no one else. I know what <I>my</I> conscience says and no one else's. It is against that scale I will be judged, and no one else.<BR/><BR/>Reason does not permit me to exclude the possibility that the Spirit is alive and at work in many different churches, and is inspiring them with testimonies of their own faiths that are as vibrant and powerful as mine. But I do not know what the Spirit is doing in their lives, and it is not my place to judge anyone or to do anything but love unconditionally and strive for peace and understanding between all people, regardless of whether they share my faith or not.John Gustav-Wrathallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557940681381951271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3280398557052766604.post-63130667586728610382007-08-24T11:33:00.000-07:002007-08-24T11:33:00.000-07:00Beck, I do think faith in and living the Gospel ca...Beck, I do think faith in and living the Gospel can be simple, if we choose to simplify our lives. I've often thought, what is it about going on vacation that I enjoy most? When I go to a small cabin in the woods, or a tent by the stream, or the Oregon beach, what I love is freedom from all the "stuff" that we surround ourselves with in our daily lives, and this allows me to focus on family and being together. So can we endeavor to shed complexity and 'become as little children' and strive to be more open, love more freely, dispose of excess materialism and follow Christ in building up the kingdom? <BR/><BR/>However,I think you were referring more to the simple B&W version of the church and observance, and that we build complexity into our faith by getting beyond simple principles and by seeking exceptions. I think for those of us who tend to question generic answers and some standard practices in the church (because they don't fit our experience), simple acceptance of the black and white may not be possible. Answers to individual needs, sought by prayer and received by personal revelation, are more simple to live by than struggling against cultural paradigms that don't work for us.<BR/><BR/>My whole point in this post is that if we question and find different answers, let us be sure they are inspired by what the Lord wants for us, and then let's not continue to question, but live peacibly by them.GeckoManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846438788253129899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3280398557052766604.post-46396257144839987482007-08-23T05:24:00.000-07:002007-08-23T05:24:00.000-07:00You've given me much to contemplate. I used to th...You've given me much to contemplate. I used to think it was simple. It's not so simple anymore. Yet, General Conference talks are simple. Gospel principles are simple. Truth is simple.<BR/><BR/>So why do I sometimes make it seem so complicated?Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3280398557052766604.post-52665334980081509752007-08-22T22:14:00.000-07:002007-08-22T22:14:00.000-07:00L,You make an excellent point that Jesus Christ ma...L,<BR/>You make an excellent point that Jesus Christ made an exclusive declaration to JS concerning his church, and this is a legitimate origin to LDS doctrine. However, I think it is also fair to say that there are elements of our Mormon culture stemming from 19th century ideals, such as attitudes regarding roles of men and women, which may be incompatible with Celestial culture. <BR/><BR/>I believe all religions and philosophies have elements of God's truth in them, because I believe He inspires men and women to noble and moral virtues. And since the Church doesn't claim to have all truth (many things are yet to be revealed), we shouldn't be too quick to deny the truth or origin of other people's faith.GeckoManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846438788253129899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3280398557052766604.post-87331205475958499322007-08-22T18:51:00.000-07:002007-08-22T18:51:00.000-07:00I've struggled with how condescending it is to hol...I've struggled with how condescending it is to hold the view that our church is true and no other is, but the thing that makes it really hard is that it's not just those silly ward members up there saying it in sacrament meeting, it was Jesus Christ who said it to Joseph as recorded in the D&C. It's harder to be ashamed to say it when I think of it that way. I find other ways to be diplomatic in expressing it, but I still believe that it's true.-L-https://www.blogger.com/profile/02854867259876731599noreply@blogger.com